oh, the internets.
Welcome to this week’s installment of “Unpopular Opinions”…
In the past six weeks or so, a bit of a revolution has been taking over the referral lists for a lot of healthy living bloggers—a little website called Get Off My Internets. The bulk of the site is made up of two different parts. The main site is a well-written, comedic blog spotlighting the best, worst and most hilarious of blogs out there. I’ve found myself laughing out loud more than once. Partially because they tend to like to bash on Bloomington because my hometown is apparently big enough for both me* and one of the most popular fashion bloggers on the internet.
*Who am I kidding, really? This town is home to Nobel Prize winners and John freaking Mellencamp, neither Jessica Quirk nor I are really a blip on the Bloomington, Indiana radar.
I digress, the second, and what I find most helpful, part of GOMI are the forums. They are 100%, at their core, snark forums. Lots of negativity being thrown around. Some decidedly mean-spirited words that hurt a hell of a lot more than a stick or stone would. It is not a happy-go-lucky place to go if you are a blogger.
But that being said, I think every blogger should go, read and learn. Even if you are bashed to smithereens. And end up in a ball rocking back and forth in the corner.
I’m not saying every word written in the GOMI Healthy Living Bloggers forum is golden advice. What I am saying is that as bloggers, we are here to interact with readers. If you didn’t want to be public and popular, then I’d venture a guess that’d you’d be writing in a pink Barbie diary hidden under your bed instead of on the internet for everyone to see. And guess what, the people writing in these snark forums are your readers, too. And I’d say they are some of the more intelligent ones.
I’ve alluded a few times on this little blog of mine about frustrations with the most popular of blogs. I don’t agree with everything said about everyone on GOMI, but I think a lot of the commentary, while harsh, is spot on. Sure, I’d prefer a kindly-worded e-mail, but I find myself agreeing more often than I’d like admit.
And those are the kind of readers I want. The kind that can see through the veil of celebrity and B.S. to actually recognize the difference between good and bad content. Being Positivity Polly (wow, that’s annoying, I’m never saying that again) means that I wish they could go about it in a less scathing way, but hey, at least they are saying something instead of pandering to the celebrity of popular bloggers. I don’t have the balls to call out people on BTHR.
Honestly, I haven’t made it into the GOMI forums in a snarky way. In fact, I managed to make it into the SOMI (Stay On My Internets) section. But I figure it is only a matter of time, before I make it on there for a terrible picture or a big ass typo (both of which I have a ton). And I may change my tune when someone starts bashing my gray hair.
But for now, I read and absorb. Do I plan on dressing differently just because some snarker says I look like an idiot? No. That’s absurd. But will a pay closer attention to my writing if there is a post with hundreds of responses chiming in about how they hate slang in blog posts? You bet your ass.
Through the harshness, there is a lot to learn. And I think an opportunity to become better at what I do. And for that, I am thankful. Even if it stings a little a lot.
How do you feel about snark forums/communities?
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I’m Cassie. I’m a Midwestern girl trying to live a healthy life without being too crazy about it. I’m a lover of fresh veggies, bright colors, craft beer, hiking, funky eyeglasses, and really, really dark chocolate.
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I only discovered GOMI recently, when Rachel Wilkerson posted about it, and I must say, I am obsessed. I not-so-secretly love the catty bitchiness and it makes me feel good that I’m not alone in my hatred for some of the big bloggers. I find it highly entertaining and wish that the said big-bloggers would pay attention. That being said, I can see how they could and probably do get their feelings hurt and not all of the snark is justified – they are people too. And in a sense, it is a form of bullying which I try not to tolerate. But inside, I’m still a teenage girl.
You are totally right. I had never though about it, but is a form of bullying. And that is something I like to avoid.
But even though I’m not a fan of the methods, that doesn’t mean there aren’t kernels of truth that we can all learn from in those forums. I think there have been so many bloggers so quick to dismiss GOMI and what is said in there. When actually, there are things to be learned.
I have much the same take on GOMI as you do. What I find most interesting about GOMI though is the way bloggers handle the criticisms, and it seems to fall into two distinct groups.
There are the bloggers like you, Rachel Wilkerson, the community at Hollerback Heath, that handle it really well. These bloggers see it as an opportunity to improve themselves in some way. They see it as valid feedback from readers. They also seems to be less frequently, if at all, snarked on. Then there are the bloggers who get all bent out of shape over what’s posted on the GOMI forums. They see it as a personal attack on them or their livelihood and they attack back, usually in some sort of passive aggressive manner via their blog or twitter, rather than trying to have an intelligent and constructive conversation.
The thing is, it came to me as no surprise who handles it well and who handles it poorly because they are the same people who handle critical comments well or poorly. Ther are bloggers where I feel totaly confortable disagreeing with. Then there are bloggers where I’d rather subject myself to torture than leave a disscenting comments.
These blogs are the reason I’m also not shocked that a site like this developed. There are certain blogs where leaving a critical comment, no matter how thoughtful or tactful or true it may be, will get you attacked by the blogger or his/ her fans in a way that borders on rabid mob mentality. I’ve read through a lot of the GOMI foorums and frankly, much of what people write there is actually thoughtful criticism. People want a place to go to voice their opinions when it’s become clear that a blogger doesn’t want to hear them; that place is now the GOMI forums.
That is a very, very, very good point. The people that are handling it well and taking it as an opportunity to improve are bloggers that I consider friends. The ones that are not? Well, I don’t usually read them anyway.
Random sidenote: How is it that I’ve never read Hollaback Health until now? Apparently I live under a blogging rock.
Since we are the same person, I don’t have a whole lot of new stuff to add to the discussion here. I agree that as bloggers we are putting ourselves out there for feedback, discussion, and critique – good and bad. Once you cut through the meanness and snark, most of what is posited in the forums has truth underneath, and we all can learn from what many bloggers automatically delete when put on their sites.
I consider myself super lucky that I haven’t made it on there in a negative way (though my “Daxter Does Life” post wasn’t too well-received there apparently, hahahaha) but even as the super-sensitive person that I am, when the day comes that someone does call me out for being pretentious or too “twee” or whatever it may be, I will seriously consider their perspective. Of course, there’s a not-so-fine line between calling out bloggers for making up words or not proofreading, and going into in-depth discussions as to why their husband must be gay, haha.
HAHA! Yeah, the entire post about bloggers significant others was an entertaining, but totally ridiculous, read. These poor guys did not sign up to be snarked on the internet. I’m not sure that was in the wedding vows.
There are SOOOO many blogs that I love to hate… yet for some reason I can’t friggin’ stop reading them.
I find the “evolution” of blogging so bizarre. Sadly, I’m not quite sure I’m a fan of it. It’s become one plug after another, which irritates me.
Like you, I don’t have the balls to leave my 100% honest opinion. If it’s not the blogger themselves that reply, it would be their cult like followers that attack you. It’s all rather disturbing really.
Thanks for being great.
I’ve pretty much stopped reading the blogs that I don’t enjoy. For the longest time, I read them because I felt like it was part of my “duty” as part of this community and, honestly, just good business sense. But the more I read them, the more frustrated I get, and it’s just a negative experience all around. There has been a lot of deleting on the ole Google Reader recently.
My Reader is completely revamped from a year ago. I purged all the bloggers that annoyed me regularly or made me feel bad about myself. It left a rather short list remaining, to be honest. But I’m much happier now. And I’ve diversified a lot! I don’t just read HLB’s anymore! What a concept!
“I purged all the bloggers that…made me feel bad about myself.”
THIS. I think sometimes HLBs can be really detrimental to my self-esteem. And truthfully, I am pretty strong-willed and confident. If I feel bad about myself after reading a blog, there are lots of people more impressionable that must be totally distraught.
I think the discussion of blogger responsibility is a whole other can of worms though…
I’ve done a lot of blog deleting and Google Reader revamping. For the most part, the blogs I started reading when I was introduced to the HLB community a couple years ago never hit my radar these days.
Over time I’ve found that I much prefer to read the “smaller” blogs. The content seems more genuine and less “mass produced,” and I feel like there’s a much greater opportunity for actual discussion and community building.
Sweet Jesus. This is everything I’ve always thought about most of the HLB community. There are maybe two healthy living blogs I like, but mostly I’ve just quit reading them all because they’re ridiculous, boring, repetitive and self absorbed. I adore Daily Garnish though, so I was interested to see a post on there about her but mostly people didn’t have too many bad things to say and a lot of people love her as well. I thought it was hilarious how almost every thread on every HLB topic degenerates into KERF bashing. Sorry for posting negativity on your blog, but I had to comment.
I <3 Daily Garnish so much. I was happy to see her pretty much left alone. And the negative comments that were made were ridiculous, petty and dismissible. Emily is one of my favorites and definitely one of my blogging "idols".
Yeah, to be honest I felt a lot of the comments on that site were completely unwarranted – just mean for mean’s sake. And even though I thought it was funny that every post talked about KERF, I felt their “complaints” didn’t really have any validity. If you don’t like Kath, don’t read her blog. If you don’t like Emily’s pregnancy posts, don’t read her blog. That’s what I don’t understand about these people. Just … close your browser.
Yes, I totally agree, the comments that were mean for mean’s sake just sucked. And it’d take a lot less effort if they’d just stop reading.
I love both of you.
I have seen the thread about me, and can’t say there is anything on there that is really all that surprising. I love my husband too much? Eh, I’ll take it.
There are definitely worse things to be accused of.
I just discovered GOMI too – I’m obsessed and equally terrified at the same time.
Obsessed because sometimes it’s really refreshing to see people’s brutally honest opinions about various topics/blogs/bloggers/writing styles. Sure, there’s a lot of unnecessary snark and nastiness in those forums, but there are also quite a few nuggets of GREAT blogging advice.
Terrified because I don’t ever want to see what nasty things people might be thinking about me!
I know, it is so scary to think about getting the crap snarked out of you. Because there are some bloggers that I look up to that are getting pulverized in there, too. I guess you just gotta remember that there will always be someone (okay, lots of someone’s) that don’t like you.
Okay. So I’m making my comment completely based on your post. Because I’m just not going to the site. I’m just not.
I don’t find it necessary to call people out. To let them know what they’ve done to piss me off or make me leave. I just leave. I just stop reading. I spend my time and energy somewhere else.
Do I find some bloggers boring? I don’t know. Because when I get bored, I stop reading. Are there bloggers that annoy me? Probably. But I don’t read them anymore. It doesn’t stop with the internet world either. I don’t find it necessary to slam restaurants that vexed me on the internet. I just don’t go back to the restaurant. I don’t need to respond to facebook posts that rub me the wrong way. I just unfriend or hide the person. Or I just roll my eyes and go on. I have more important -and positive- places to spend my energy.
I remember the “Slam Books” that went around in middle school. And that’s what this feels like (again, just based on your post). Could it be constructive? Maybe. But what are the chances that the comment was written from that constructive place or intent? To me, this sounds more like bullying, like putting people down, like picking apart people who are successful.
I understand that people want to get better at their craft. I get that. But do “snark”, “getting pulverized”, “catty bitchiness”, “meanness” or “hatred” (all words taken from your post or the comments) really make that happen? Is that really the way we want to help each other?
If you’re so concerned about how your readers feel about your blog? ASK THEM. I know you recently have, Cass, and I would assume that is the feedback you really care about: feedback from the readers that get you, not those that are out to get you.
Maybe it is because I get no income at all from my blog, but my attitude? If you don’t like me, then don’t read me. I don’t want you to waste your time on my blog if you don’t like it.
I’m sorry if this sounds self-righteous, but this post just sat with me wrong all day. Almost made me feel a little uneasy about being part of the blogging community at all. I hate to think that my readers (who I am so open with and receive so much love from) could be tearing me apart behind my back.
It upsets me that we do this to each other.
I don’t know what else to say.
No, you don’t sound self-righteous at all! I totally get it. And like I said, I would much prefer them to go about it in a more positive manner instead of snarking, but I think the truth is, people aren’t honest when you ask them.
If I wrote a post and said, “Tell me the truth about my blog. What should I change? What should I keep? What annoys you about me?” I would, of course, get a small amount of constructive criticism, but I think most people would reply with “You’re great!” or nothing at all. Even if they felt differently. People speak differently when they feel like they are protected, and even if it isn’t positive, people feel protected on the GOMI forums.
I do get income from my blog. And I hope one day that this and other related things can turn into a career for me. And I think there is something to learn from how the “big bloggers” do their craft and the feedback people give to them. Regardless of if that is on their blog or in a mean snark forum.
It upsets me that we do this to each other, too. But I’m definitely not operating under the pretense that all my readers are here for a good time. Some people are here to make fun of me. Or see what stupid thing I do next. People can be so mean and would I prefer it if everyone was more like you? Absolutely. I’d love it if everyone was as awesome as you.
But the truth is, you are totally special and nice and pure and a lot of folks aren’t. That doesn’t mean I’m going to join them. But I’m also not going to ignore them or what they are saying.
You’re right. A lot of people would blow smoke up your ass. But if I genuinely wanted to be a better blogger? I know who to ask. I have relationships with bloggers who have blogs that I admire, bloggers that I could email and say, “So I’m really wanting to make this better and I admire what you do. What do you see that I could do better?” And I’d get meaningful feedback. I’d get thoughtful comments. Comments meant to improve.
I don’t know, friend. I totally understand what you are saying. But it leaves a terrible taste in my mouth. It’s like saying that listening to others making fun of the hair of the girl in the front of the bus is going to make me spend more time making my hair look presentable.
It just tastes terrible.
I think that’s exactly right.
If I heard a lot of people commenting on how terrible someone’s hair looks, I would probably think twice about getting that same hairstyle. Maybe I’d still get it, but I’d at least want to be aware that maybe that hairstyle isn’t well-liked. That’s, obviously, a superficial example, but if you related that to the content of a blog? Same deal, for me.
Maybe that makes me a sell out or a panderer to what’s popular, but it’s how I’ve always operated. I want all the information. And that includes hearing what mean/sad/petty people think, too. And then I’ll make a decision about what path is right for me.
I’m not trying to convince you. I think we’re just going to have to agree to disagree. But, I just don’t want you to think I’m a terrible person. Because I love you. And respect you. And wish I was half as amazing and kind as you are.
Krissie I’m really glad you made this comment. You really summed up for me how I felt about this post, too. I have not, and will not, be going to this GOMI or whatever. Why seek out negativity to add to all the other negativity in life?
I also agree 100% that if you want constructive criticism then *that* is what you should ask for, from your readers, from your friends that will tell you the truth, from your mom, from your advertisers…but going to find constructive critcism from people hiding behind screen names and snotty remarks?? No thank you.
I have a couple of small blogs. My friends and family read them, and I don’t know who else pops in. Sure I’d love to make it bigger at some point, but it is sites and issues like this GOMI site that make me hesitate. I had enough bullying and bitchiness in grade and high school, I’m not going to tolerate it in my grown up life.
Cassie…I really enjoy your blog. I appreciate how you put it together, the thoughtfulness and layout, the topics, the tone…so far there isn’t anything I could tell you to do differently. I enjoy it.
Thanks for your nice comments, Corrie. It means a lot to hear an honest opinion!
I definitely think seeking out constructive criticism from the people I trust is a great idea. Thanks to you and Krissie both for suggesting it.
I was bullied a little growing up (wasn’t everyone?), and honestly, I’ve always been the kind of person to take that stuff and use it to make myself better and stronger. That doesn’t mean the bullying is right, it just means I always try to figure out how I can use negative situations to make me a better person. If that makes any sense? I hope it doesn’t sound like I’m condoning bullying, because I definitely am not.
Thank you SO much for chiming into this.
I think I found your blog through GOMI (that is as one of the SOMI blogs)! I’m so glad I did!
Well that’s a definitely benefit of the forums! Thanks for popping over.
I found the GOMI a few weeks ago. I love the main articles because they point out not only the oddities bloggers use but some wonderful new bloggers.
The forum is a place I can’t look away. It’s vary snarky but if you can break it down there is usually a good point under there we all can learn from as bloggers. Not every time because some is plain snark. As bloggers we need to make notice of it because if these are readers who are willing to speak up how many readers aren’t the “fans” but won’t speak up when they don’t agree for fear of being attacked in the comments.
My Google Reader has been remodeled lately. Part of that is a remodeling of my self-esteem too.
I definitely think, especially for some of the more celebrity bloggers, there is a fear of being attacked by those who disagree. So many readers don’t feel they can speak their mind. I hope that never happens here. I love the open discussion (that really is the whole reason I started doing this).
I think I actually discovered your blog via the GOMI forums.
Good thing I said the thing about GOMI people being intelligent, right?
</sucking up>
I’d never heard of the GOMI site before. I’m not quite sure what to think of it. I actually laughed pretty hard at one of the threads in the forum, but I’m not a huge fan of a place just to say mean-ish things about others. Although some of what was said there did have a ring of truth to it, but some of it crossed the line into very personal attacks on things that really aren’t pertinent to the blogs they are criticizing. Also, I had to wonder, if some of the readers absolutely just hate certain blogs so much, why do they read them? I do think it’s good to have the attitude that even if a comment is delivered in a not-so-kind way you can still learn from it.
“Also, I had to wonder, if some of the readers absolutely just hate certain blogs so much, why do they read them?”
This. I’ve gotten into just deleting the blogs from my reader that are annoying me. It takes a lot less effort.
Wow what a site! I guess I have a mixed opinion about this. At first it shocked me and left me crinkling my eyebrows in disgust, but the more I read, I realized people were just being open and honest about what they liked and didn’t like about other blogs. A site like this is bound to exist on the internet and I think GOMI is actually put together really well considering what it represents.
But I can also see how this site spotlights internet bullying–and that left me with a foul taste in my mouth. It’s cruel and unfair, and often a result of some sort of jealousy or low self-esteem. Plus, I noticed some people leaving snarky comments that were grossly exaggerated and even false. And others weren’t just critical comments of a blogger’s writing style or content, but personal attacks against the blogger herself! i.e. So-and-so has gained weight, how can she call herself a healthy living blogger?!… is so-and-so ever going to get married or just keeping talking about it and hoping it happens?… so-and-so looks 15 years older than her age! I can’t believe her cute husband is still with her!… These personal attacks were the ones I thought offensive and unnecessary.
In an ideal world everybody would give mature constructive criticism right? Ha! Obviously never gonna happen. I like the concept of GOMI but some of the forum discussions were spitefully mean and personal, and I don’t agree with that.
I could definitely do without the personal attacks. And I think there isn’t much of anything to be learned from those.
I think this was touched on, especially by Krissie but I just wanted to reiterate that the best way to let a blogger know that you don’t like their content is to stop reading their blog.
If their content is crappy then stop reading it, don’t give them the false hope of raising the numbers on their page views or comment threads. If enough readers drop off, I’m sure said blogger would re-think their approach and/or content.
I like GOMI in the sense that it’s honest, and people do need to take themselves seriously every once in a while and THINK about what they are writing rather than getting caught up in the trend but I overall I don’t really think people need a place to “vent”. I’ve never felt SO angry or bothered by a blogger’s post that I felt like I would explode if I didn’t say something negative and then had other people agree with me. I think the GOMI site itself is awesome and honest but the forums just promote, bashing, bullying and line crossing. For the most part.
GOMI even says in their own ‘About’ page, if you’re offended or don’t like the content. Don’t read it. That’s the loudest message the blogger will hear.
Although, to play Devil’s advocate, how is a blogger to know WHAT is wrong if users just stop reading? If my readership slowly dropped dramatically, I might be able to realize something was wrong, but not be able to fix specifics.
Again, I’m not saying I condone the method. I am saying that as long as GOMI is out there, as bloggers, we might as well learn something from it.
This got me thinking, maybe I should add a digital “Suggestion Box” to my blog. Entirely annoymous, but a place where people might feel a little more protected to give me suggestions criticism. Is that weird?
Cassie, I actually love the idea of an anonymous suggestion box. I kinda wish everyone could have one. The thing with these big bloggers though is that their readership isn’t hurting and they’ve been blogging the same for years and it obviously is working for them so why change even if a minority group thinks they are crap? They have that celebrity following that indulges their narcisstic egos and doesn’t allow them to look at their own blogs objectively anymore.
Cassie,
I do agree with you – bloggers (or writers in general) need constructive, honest and sometimes harsh criticism to grow, evolve and strengthen their craft! I think a suggestion box would be a great idea. Not weird at all. If you really want to get readers (like me!) would love suggestion boxes on all blogs. I think that’s a cool idea.
I’m gonna go search for a way to do one today!
When I first started reading blogs a few years ago, the “big” blogs were the ones that I found first. I loved them, and didn’t go a day without reading them. Over time, I found them to be trite and just plain boring. As I ventured out into the blog world, I found more people like myself, and let the “big blogs” go from my Reader. I still check in on them from time to time; but for the most part, any given post on any given day is basically the same as what said blogger could have written a year ago.
All of that being said, I think that as people’s interests change, their blog reading preferences change as well. I don’t think there are really any “good” blogs or “bad” blogs; just those that hold your interest, and those that do not.
Hi Cassie, I recently found GOMI via Rachel Wilkerson too and have read through many of the forums. I can honestly say that your blog crossed my mind several times as what a HLB *should* be. I enjoy that while the subject matter is related, you have different topics for your blog posts and a nice cross section of your life(style)and health/fitness stuff (versus just repeated summaries of what you eat/ate). I like seeing how someone who seems “real” lives her life and incorporates various healthy things.
Kim
(and just in case it is of interest to you, because if I was a blogger I’d be interested…I am a 45 year old single mother in Vancouver, WA.)
Aww, thank you so much, Kim! That means so much to me.